In June 2023, when Rabbi David Leybel gave a speech suggesting that ultra-Orthodox parents should be able to choose the educational framework for their children, mentioning both Haredi state schools and cheders only devoted to Torah study, he set off an uproar.
Launched in 2013, Haredi state schools, known as Mamlachti-Haredi in Hebrew, or by the acronym MAMAH, teach math and other secular subjects, which cheders — traditional Haredi primary schools — cover only at minimal levels, if at all.
“Simply for stating that parents could choose, I was met with protests and attacks,” Leybel told The Times of Israel in his Jerusalem office. “However, last summer, three major Hasidic groups decided that their schools would join the MAMAH track. And only a few days ago, [United Torah Judaism MK Moshe] Gafni attended an education conference in Beit Shemesh with representatives of MAMAH schools. Suddenly, the Haredi public school system concept has become legitimate.” (Veteran legislator Gafni heads the Knesset Finance Committee.)
According to data from the Education Ministry quoted by the Globes economic daily, some 19,000 students attended MAMAH schools and daycares in the school year 2023-2024. This year, another 9,000 students entered the system, bringing the total to around 28,000, or 7% of the Haredi community’s schoolchildren.
“Slowly, these processes happen,” Leybel said. “It is important to lead the camp forward. Someone needs to take the heat for it at the beginning, and I will do it. Eventually, change comes.”
The rabbi has been advancing pioneering initiatives within the ultra-Orthodox world for quite some time. Lately, he has set his eyes on possibly the greatest challenge of all — promoting the drafting of ultra-Orthodox yeshiva students into the Israel Defense Forces.
Speaking with The Times of Israel even as ultra-Orthodox political leaders have demanded the expedited passage of legislation that would enshrine in law the decades-old norm by which most ultra-Orthodox men do not perform IDF or any other kind of national service, Leybel said that a solution to the problem is much closer than the public discourse in the Haredi community suggests.
“Behind closed doors, the conversation is significantly different from what appears in the media,” he said.
“The Haredi leadership portrays the issue as if there were a consensus [against military service], but no such consensus exists,” he said.
He suggested that the staunch opposition to any compromise originates from a single rabbinical figure, creating the primary obstacle for others to adopt more moderate positions. He did not elaborate but was possibly alluding to Rabbi Dov Lando, 94, the anti-Zionist head of Bnei Brak’s Slabodka yeshiva, who has repeatedly urged yeshiva students to refuse call-ups.
Born into a rabbinic family in France, Leybel moved to Israel at 18 to attend the Ponevezh Yeshiva, a flagship Lithuanian (or non-Hassidic Ashkenazi) community institution.
In the 1990s, along with his Torah studies, Leybel started to work in the diamond business. Some 15 years ago, he began trying to offer solutions for the working ultra-Orthodox.
“The community of learners is very closed-off,” he noted. “Someone who starts working is expelled from the community and feels left out in the wilderness. We have created a community that welcomes and gives these people legitimacy.”
Over the years, Leybel established evening Bet Midrash (Jewish study hall) programs for working Haredi men; JBH, an institution where students learn Torah and computer skills; and a yeshiva where students can earn full degrees in cooperation with the Open University.
Leybel’s Achvat Torah network runs schools and over 60 communities across Israel. Its members have grown from 4,000 people in 2022 to 15,000 in 2025.
More recently, Leybel has been working with the army to promote solutions for the enlistment of the ultra-Orthodox in the Israel Defence Forces, one of the most acute political and social crises that Israel is facing.
In June, the High Court of Justice ruled that the government must draft ultra-Orthodox yeshiva students into the military since there was no longer any legal framework to continue the decades-long practice of granting them blanket exemptions from service.
However, the efforts have largely stalled amid an unwillingness of the ultra-Orthodox to compromise and a lack of political will to force the issue through the Knesset, despite the urgent need in the IDF for more manpower, especially in combat positions.
Leybel has been instrumental in establishing the Hasmonean Brigade, a combat unit where the ultra-Orthodox can serve while preserving their Haredi lifestyle. The first 50 soldiers of the brigade were drafted in January.
Some 400 Haredim also serve in Kodcode, a special track that drafts ultra-Orthodox men in high-tech units that Leybel helped launch about a year and a half ago.
The rabbi repeatedly expressed how all his efforts so far were met with forceful pushback by the Haredi leadership at the beginning, and eventually, they became growingly legitimate among the mainstream Haredi community, such as his education track.
“This will also happen with the draft,” Leybel said. “It may take a little longer, a few months, maybe more, but change will come.”
The following interview has been lightly edited for clarity and brevity.
Times of Israel: We meet during challenging days, as the war has resumed and the Israeli society is deeply divided. How do you view the situation?
Rabbi David Leybel: Our country has two main problems, the left-right divide and the split between the ultra-Orthodox and the secular, that today also exists between the ultra-Orthodox and the Religious-Zionist community. However, over 50% of the Haredi society wants to integrate into the outside world, at least to some degree.
This means working, ensuring their children receive an education that includes secular subjects, and serving in the army or civil national service. Our polling shows that around 20% are already thoroughly convinced, and another 30% have expressed interest in at least some of these realms. Overall, there is a genuine desire to be part of this nation.
This is my field. We are pursuing several avenues to normalize what the Haredi public wants. Our movement, Achvat Torah, encompasses all the initiatives in education, employment, and more.
The community of learners is very closed off. Someone who starts working is expelled from the community and feels left out in the wilderness. We have created a community that welcomes these people and gives them legitimacy. We convey the message that they are not doing anything wrong but rather precisely what the Shulchan Aruch [Jewish legal code] says. Because the Shulchan Aruch requires people to work.
Regarding the enlistment of ultra-Orthodox men, some focus on drafting those who are not really learning. Others think it is also essential to draft the best students to create a societal change. What do you think?
‘We need to distinguish between what is ideal and what is achievable’
We need to distinguish between what is ideal and what is achievable. The ideal outcome of this crisis is a situation where only a real elite of students are exempted from army service and devote themselves to becoming the future sages of the Torah world, and everyone else serves in one way or another.
Not everyone in the secular society becomes a combat soldier, but some do, and the same should happen within the Haredi community, recognizing that our shared nation is under attack. However, the reality is that we have two trains on a collision path running at full speed. This is why we need to sit together and find solutions. It is possible if everyone is willing to do it.
It seems that those unwilling to compromise are the Haredi leadership.
I believe that this is not true for the general Haredi leadership but rather for one person who guides the Lithuanian world. The rest of the leading rabbis are already talking. Behind closed doors, the conversation is significantly different from what appears in the media.
The Haredi leadership portrays the issue as if there were a consensus, but no such consensus exists. I think either bottom-up pressure from the ultra-Orthodox community due to sanctions or a change in leadership will change the situation.
Why is it so difficult to speak up?
Because our society really limits people in expressing themselves. However, things can change. When two years ago I said that parents could choose to send their children to MAMAH schools, or to a cheder where they also teach some secular subjects, or to a cheder where they only teach Torah, I was met with protests and shouting. A few months ago, three large Hasidic groups, Beltz, Santz and Karlin, decided to enter the MAMAH system. Last week, Gafni attended an education conference in Beit Shemesh with MAMAH representatives. Suddenly, the concept of a Haredi public school system has become legitimate.
‘Suddenly, the concept of a Haredi public school system has become legitimate’
When JBH opened, it caused a stir, there were protests, and letters from rabbis condemning it. Today, they ask me if I can get their son or grandson in. Slowly, these processes happen.
It is important to lead the camp forward. Someone needs to take the heat for it at the beginning, and I will do it. Eventually, change comes. This will also happen with the draft. It may take a little longer, a few months, maybe more, but change will come.
There was a time when military service was common and acceptable in the Haredi society. What changed?
It is true. This was before [Menachem] Begin rose to the government in 1977 and declared that all those for whom Torato Umanuto [Torah study is their occupation] were exempted from serving. At that point, everyone began to learn in yeshiva, or at least register there, even if they were working, because it was enough to be exempt from the army. Begin also started to give out a lot of money, and so did [prime ministers Yitzhak] Rabin and [Ehud] Olmert.
Both the right and the left gave endless money and did not take care of the draft law, as they were only interested in receiving the ultra-Orthodox votes in the Knesset. But now that the war has happened, the demographics are different, so there is a need to look at things differently.
While a significant shift in the ultra-Orthodox society and leadership is needed, what can the Israeli authorities do?
‘We need an official military protocol ensuring that the IDF guarantees a Haredi lifestyle for ultra-Orthodox soldiers in designated Haredi tracks’
We need an official military protocol ensuring that the IDF guarantees a Haredi lifestyle for ultra-Orthodox soldiers in designated Haredi tracks. Currently, these conditions are upheld only at the level of unit commanders, including in the Hasmonean Brigade. This means that if leadership changes or unforeseen circumstances arise, the commitments may not be maintained — or only partially so.
Similar lapses have occurred in the past, eroding trust in the army’s promises. The process of issuing this protocol has been delayed, maybe because the military has other pressing issues to deal with, but I believe it will happen in the coming weeks. I have also called for establishing a rabbinical committee within the Defense Ministry to oversee its implementation.
These steps are crucial for building trust among the ultra-Orthodox, many of whom fear that serving in the military is incompatible with maintaining a Haredi lifestyle. A formal protocol and oversight committee would send a clear message that the army is serious about addressing these concerns.
In your view, what does it mean to be Haredi today?
For 2,000 years — throughout history and even today in the Diaspora — 90% of Haredim have worked. Being Haredi does not mean studying Torah all day; it means adhering to what is written in the Shulchan Aruch, which explicitly states that people must work while dedicating a little time each day to study.
‘The fundamental goal of the Haredi community is to continue preserving Torah and mitzvot’
One could argue that the religious Zionist community also follows the Shulchan Aruch. However, the Haredi perspective is that what has preserved the Jewish people for millennia is the observance of mitzvot. While religious Zionists may uphold mitzvot at a very high level, their core aspiration — the driving force behind their actions — is to build the foundation for Redemption, to create a throne for the Messiah. They view the state and the army as inherently holy.
In contrast, the fundamental goal of the Haredi community is to continue preserving Torah and mitzvot.
In my opinion, the worldview of the Haredi community is not left-wing or right-wing. [Lithuanian Judaism leader] Rav Elazar Shach supported territorial concessions for peace, and Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the leader of Sephardi Jewry and founder of Shas, backed the Oslo Accords. Haredim are neither capitalists nor socialists — they are centrists, and they must remain centrists.
By reclaiming their place at the center of the political spectrum, they can serve as a bridge between the right and left, working alongside moderates from both sides to form a government for the people of Israel. This is why a Haredi society that is pragmatic and sane can be a solution for the entire State of Israel.
The Times of Israel Community.
