Daily Briefing Sept. 15: Day 710 – Rubio reaffirms strong US relationship in Israel visit

Welcome to The Times of Israel’s Daily Briefing, your 20-minute audio update on what’s happening in Israel, the Middle East and the Jewish world.

Diplomatic correspondent Lazar Berman joins host Amanda Borschel-Dan for today’s episode.

US Secretary of State Marco Rubio is in Israel and at recording time has just finished his meeting in Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Jerusalem office. On Friday, Trump and special envoy Steve Witkoff had dinner with the Qatari Prime Minister Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman al-Thani in New York, after al-Thani held a four-hour-long meeting with Vice President JD Vance and Rubio at the White House.

We learn what Rubio has so far said during his meetings in Israel about Israel’s strike on Hamas leaders in US-ally Qatar last week. We also speak about the agenda for Rubio’s participation in tonight’s opening of the Pilgrims’ Path, a newly excavated tunnel that leads from east Jerusalem’s City of David to the Temple Mount plaza.

Qatar is still fuming over last week’s attack on its soil. Qatar’s prime minister accused Israel of “state terrorism,” and said its attack in Doha last week targeting Hamas’s leaders was “an attack on the principle of mediation itself,” but nevertheless vowed to continue efforts to reach a ceasefire. Berman explains why the country will continue to serve as a mediator, even as it may attempt to stir trouble for Israel in other realms.

Israel is building two new aid distribution sites, which, according to the military, will be handed over to the US- and Israeli-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation in the coming days. The IDF invited journalists to visit the sites on Wednesday before they become operational. Berman was there and reports back on what he saw, and how the war may look moving forward.

Check out The Times of Israel’s ongoing liveblog for more updates.

For further reading:

Rubio opens Israel visit with Netanyahu at Western Wall amid Gaza ops, Qatar fallout

Qatari PM says Israel must be ‘punished’ for strike, vows to continue ceasefire efforts

After Israeli strike, Qatar to host emergency Arab-Islamic summit to discuss response

Waiting for Gaza City residents to head south, Israel readies new aid sites in Rafah

Subscribe to The Times of Israel Daily Briefing on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode was produced by Podwaves.

Below is a full transcript of today’s episode:

Amanda Borschel-Dan: Welcome to the Times of Israel’s Daily Briefing. Today is Monday, September 15, day 710 of the war. Amanda Borschel-Dan here with our diplomatic correspondent, Lazar Berman.

Hi, Lazar. Thank you so much for joining me on this super busy day. Well, I’m happy to be here and thank you to our listeners for joining us on this super busy day. US [United States] Secretary of State Marco Rubio is in Israel in meetings with several Israeli officials, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and President Isaac Herzog.

Lazar was at some of them and he will fill us in on what he knows so far. An emergency Arab-Islamic summit is being held in Doha today in the wake of last week’s bombing of a Hamas meeting house. So we’ll hear how the Qataris are characterizing Israel’s operation and what may come next.

Lazar was in Rafah last week in southern Gaza and we’ll learn of what he saw and also discuss what we know right now of the war’s current strategy. So all of this and more when we’re back.

Amanda Borschel-Dan: I’m Amanda Borschel-Dan here with the diplomatic correspondent, Lazar Berman. US Secretary of State Marco Rubio has just finished his meeting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in his Jerusalem office and is meeting with President Isaac Herzog, I believe, as we speak, Lazar. Is that right?

Lazar Berman: That is correct.

Amanda Borschel-Dan: Now, ahead of Rubio’s trip to Israel, he delivered statements on the tarmac, essentially echoing US President Donald Trump’s displeasure at the strike on Hamas officials residing in Qatar. I’m rolling it back a little bit. And on Friday, Trump and Special Envoy (to the Middle East) Steve Witkoff had dinner with the Qatari Prime Minister in New York after (Mohammed bin Abdulrahman bin Jassim) Al Thani held a four hour long meeting with (US) Vice President JD Vance and Rubio at the White House. And now there are rumors that Rubio will travel to Qatar after Israel. So, Lazar, let’s start with Rubio’s public statements in Israel and then we’re going to address and unwind the Qatar issue. So what has Rubio been saying so far?

Lazar Berman: So I think Israel can be quite relatively relaxed and should be happy with what we’ve heard from Rubio. So I was just at the prime minister’s office. Rubio and Netanyahu met for three hours and then came out and give statements to the press and then answered questions. And there was nothing concerning or surprising in what Rubio said. He said, Hamas needs to be eliminated. All the hostages must be released. That remains the US policy, that remains President Trump’s priority. And he made it very clear that America wants to look to the future and how to achieve that. That means it’s not going to dwell on the Doha (Qatar) strike, which we know the administration was not thrilled about, to say the least. But it really hasn’t changed the position, at least publicly, of the United States, of Washington, of the Trump administration. So in terms of the public statements, I think Israel can understand that it has gotten, at least from the US, has gotten off as lightly as it could. Of course, there is still going to be pressure from the Arab states, from the United States allies in the Middle East. And of course, that ongoing meeting today is going to try to make as many problems for Israel. And the easiest way to do that is through pressure on the United States. So right now, what we’re hearing and what I saw and what Rubio has said is that the policy on the Gaza war has not changed. There’s no new pressure to end the war. He didn’t really mention this operation on Gaza City, but he did mention the Hamas needs to be eliminated, stressed as a military force. So if someone wanted to look for some sort of daylight, you could say maybe Rubio’s saying that they could still exist as some sort of civil force, but that might be a stretch. But he seemed very clear that they had to be eliminated. They’re not likely to give up. So that seems to point at a continued green light for Israel to lead the way on the military policy on the Gaza Strip.

Amanda Borschel-Dan: Now, the stated reason for Rubio’s trip here, as far as I understand it, is to help open up this pilgrim’s path in the city of David. This is a place I’ve been in the past and it’s a heavily excavated tunnel that basically it was the stairway where pilgrims to the Temple Mount used to climb in order to get up to the Temple Mount during festivals, et cetera. But yesterday, Rubio was also at the Western Wall. What do you think is the signaling here in terms of, I don’t know, readiness for annexation or something like that? Because I’ll remind our listeners that the pilgrim’s path is in the city of David, which is on the eastern side of Jerusalem.

Lazar Berman: And also I should stress, so is the Kotel, so is the Western Wall. In fact, the entire Jewish quarter is, quote unquote, in East Jerusalem occupied territory, which in my mind makes the whole green line argument that anything over it is illegitimate for Jews to live in kind of ridiculous, but we can talk about that at a different time.

Amanda Borschel-Dan: Maybe a Friday focus, right, Lazar?

Lazar Berman: Let’s do a Friday Focus on that. What is the green line? But I think you are right. You did hit a nail on the head that you’re not going to get pressure on the administration about settlements and about the legitimacy of Jewish presence in this part of the world. I think that’s very important. Now, in this press conference, they did not really address the annexation issue. If I had been called on, I would have asked it. So you want good questions, you call on Lazar. But the fact that he’s coming for this, and this is a site that is controversial in the average Western or European discourse and among Democrats also, this would be controversial. And he is saying how proud, how much of an honor it is to be there. And I think for the American audience as well, when they’re really stressing one of these pillars of the US-Israel relationship, which is the religious one, obviously America is a mostly Christian country, and he’s not evangelical, but evangelical Christians make up such an important part of President Trump’s constituency and also religious Catholics. So religious Christians really do. It’s very important that Trump knows this and to stress and to signal back to Americans that this is so important and this is what makes the relationship so special, I think is important. And I’m sure Israel is very happy to see that as well.

Amanda Borschel-Dan: Now, whereas late afternoon today, Monday, September 15, we’re not hearing huge blowback from the United States, we definitely are hearing it from the Qataris. And Qatar’s prime minister accused Israel of, quote unquote, state terrorism and said its attack in Doha last week targeting Hamas’s leaders was, quote, an attack on the principle of mediation itself.

So, Lazar, what do you make of these remarks paired with the fact that Qatar says it will continue to serve as a mediator in the ceasefire proposals?

Lazar Berman: So I’ll start with the remarks themselves, not surprising. I think it is kind of par for the course that it wants to deflect any accusations of terror supporting from itself and therefore it uses that very same word against Israel to kind of muddy the waters.And we’ve seen that in the past. I’ve even seen it against myself when Israel strikes journalists or people wearing journalist vests and says that and offers photos that they are actually involved with Hamas or other terrorist groups. Then people who have served in reserves like myself, (Emmanuel) “Mannie” Fabian, our military reporter, there’s these memes or these pictures that go around, look, Israeli journalists are also in militants. So there’s kind of this pattern of when they are caught doing something, they like to turn that around. And this isn’t the first time Qatar has been accused of supporting terrorism. In 2017, we’ve spoken about how the GCC [Gulf Cooperation Council] countries, the Saudi (Arabia), UAE [United Arab Emirates], Bahrain and others, basically did everything short of declaring war against Qatar. They accused them of supporting terrorism across the region. So this is absolutely an accusation which stings Qatar and they want to move past it. And a way to do that is to accuse Israel of state terrorism. In terms of the mediation, I’m not surprised because I’ve always said the fundamental interests are what drive the behavior of these actors. And none of that has changed. Qatar still wants to show that it is the indispensable mediator between the West and the people that they have to deal with but don’t want to deal with. So whether that was the Taliban, whether that was Iran or whether it’s Hamas, they want to show that they can deliver and no one else can.Egypt still wants to see this war end as quickly as possible and does not, on its terms, wants to make sure that no Gazans are pushed into the Sinai (Egypt). That remains. So everyone’s interest remains the same. They still want to be the ones who mediate and they still want to see this war end. So that all remains the same and so everyone’s really behaving the same. That doesn’t mean that they’re not going to try to do other things against Israel in other arenas, whether it’s to try to get more of these European countries to cut Israel out of sporting events and cultural events. We’re going to continue to see that and I expect Europe to play along very nicely. But in terms of the mediation, again, interests remain the same, therefore behavior will remain the same.

Amanda Borschel-Dan: Let’s go to a short break.

And we’re back.

I am Amanda Borschel-Dan here with our diplomatic correspondent, Lazar Berman.

Lazar last week wrote a stunningly beautiful piece about what is happening on the ground in Gaza. And essentially what’s happening is Israel is building two new aid distribution sites which, according to the military, will be handed over to the US and Israeli-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation [GHF] in the coming days. So Lazar was there when the IDF [Israel Defense Forces] invited journalists to visit these sites on Wednesday. And Lazar, I have to say, reading your piece, I really felt like I was there with you. So please check it out. It’s in the program notes. Lazar, let’s talk about what you saw generally.

Lazar Berman: Yeah. So first of all, you don’t have to only feel that you were there with me. I’m sure you could come along to one of these trips at some point and see Gaza for yourself.

The interest that Israel had in bringing mostly foreign journalists actually to the site was very clear. Now, the GHF, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, is that US-Israeli initiative since March. It started operating in May. It has come under a lot of criticism from the rest of the aid community, saying that they don’t follow the right principles of neutrality, impartiality, dignity, and also because of scenes of chaos within the sites and violence outside the sites. The GHF says, hey, we’re the only ones delivering food at this scale right now, and we have zero percent loot in, and there’s been no violence, no one’s gotten hurt or killed within our sites. And so Israel is, in cooperation with the US, but the IDF is building two new sites right now, both in southern Gaza and Rafah. So they took us to see the construction of these sites. What is different now is that they are quite close to the (al) Mawasi (Rafah) humanitarian area, so that Gazans, if they choose to go to this area, as Israel wants, won’t have to walk many kilometers. They’ll be able to walk by foot five to 10 minutes to the more northerly of the sites, and maybe 20 minutes at most to the southern site. The routes will be much more clearly marked, so there won’t be people stumbling into active war zones. I think that’s one of the reasons that a lot of people have been getting killed or shot at around these sites. So Israel says that this is going to be much smoother, and the more sites you open, the less pressure there is on each site. You won’t necessarily have as many of those scenes of chaos where they open the gate and it’s a free-for-all inside. So that’s what they wanted to show us. I also noted that there was no sounds of war, which was kind of very interesting.

Usually when you’re in Gaza, you hear things blowing up. Israel really controls that southern Gaza Strip. We were not in armored vehicles. We were in pickup trucks. You saw civilian cars driving up and down the Philadelphia Corridor (Egyptian-Gazan border). We were right next to the beach, so you could actually hear the waves. You could see that black pipeline that the Emiratis have started of desalination. I won’t even try anymore. We’re going to stop. But it doesn’t have salt anymore from the sea. It is fresh water. You can drink it.

That is going from Egypt to the Mawasi area. So you saw a lot of the humanitarian initiatives that Israel, once they got into all this controversy over the summer, that they really picked up and put a lot of effort and a lot of publicity around these new initiatives. You could really see a lot of them. At least that day I was there, it was calm. Israel was in control. There was more construction and they were optimistic. They really wanted to show off their new humanitarian initiatives.

Amanda Borschel-Dan: First of all, it’s very comforting to hear somebody else have trouble pronouncing words. So thank you for that, Lazar. But I just want to return to what you’re talking about in terms of killings and shootings and violence. I am under the impression that there has been a lot of violence and shooting at these GHF sites and that we’ve indeed documented it. But what you wrote in your piece and what you appear to be saying now is that all of these killings have occurred outside the compounds and not inside. Is that what you’re saying?

Lazar Berman: Yeah, but that’s not new. The sense I get is whatever wasn’t Hamas, and a lot of it wasn’t, was people either trying to rush to get there ahead of other people or to find ways into these sites, or they just couldn’t figure out because it was poorly marked on maps or poorly marked on the ground where the route that they’re supposed to go, what the safe route is. So they ended up wandering into neighborhoods where there’s no humanitarian movement and it’s Israel battling whatever Hamas terrorists are still there. And that starts to become very dangerous because to get them to move, you only have really kinetic means, live fire and things like that. Doesn’t mean you’re shooting at them, but you’re shooting around them. And if it’s from a distance, obviously people can get hit. And there’s a lot of fear because Hamas’s main effort now is IEDs (Improvised explosive devices), explosives, that among masses of people, they can get into these neighborhoods and plant explosives. So it’s a very tense environment. So having hundreds or thousands of people being where they’re not going to be leads to a lot of these deadly incidents.

Amanda Borschel-Dan: Okay, Lazar, let’s talk about what’s happening in terms of the strategy. And I spoke with our military correspondent yesterday, Emmanuel Fabian, and we talked about how essentially the ground is being prepared for the ground incursion in Gaza City and towers are being taken down. And it appears that it’s imminent that this Gideon’s Chariots 2 is going to be launched more fully inside Gaza City. What are you seeing? What’s your assessment right now?

Lazar Berman: So I just want to stress that from Rafah, we couldn’t see any evidence of it. It’s really far away from Gaza City. But in terms of the reporting element of it, yeah. I mean, it takes a while to build up for this. Once you start building everything up, it’s very unlikely that you’re going to just stop everything because then you have to return, reserve its home, you have to send units all over the place, and it’s not easy to get forces positioned again. So basing the position of the government now is Hamas can surrender, it can meet all of Israel’s terms, it can disarm, its leaders can go into exile, of course, release all the hostages immediately, or it’s going to face this operation. And Israel is not in the mood for another partial deal, which means it releases, reserve its home, and then it takes months to, has to recapture what it just captured. And then it has to call everyone back up and it’s a whole, it makes the operation very, very hard to pull off again. And I think Hamas is counting on that.

So that’s why it’s either Hamas gives up now or during the operation, or it’s going to face the operation in Gaza City. And then I would predict things will move south to the central camps where Israel really hasn’t operated till now. I will note that the majority, if not all the living hostages are assumed to be there, which is why Israel hasn’t operated there yet.

Of course, the longer this goes on, the more dangerous it gets for those hostages, something to keep in mind. There’s no easy answer there, but that is certainly something that is shaping, has shaped IDF operations throughout and will continue to do so. But as we get now to, there’s fewer and fewer hostages that haven’t been released. They’re still alive. Israel is saying that there’s 20 and that there’s fewer and fewer areas that IDF hasn’t taken, that at some point Israel is going to have to make the decision to feed Hamas on the ground or prioritize the release of the hostages. For now, it is continuing what it has done throughout the war, which is saying military pressure leads to the release of hostages. But that’s getting harder and harder to argue. And it looks like we’re getting closer and closer to an end somehow of this, whether it is on the battlefield or Hamas surrendering unlikely or some other type of release. So, you know, we are getting toward the end of this. And I think that is what Trump wants to see as well.

Amanda Borschel-Dan: Okay. Let’s just close the program by closing a circle.
As I mentioned earlier in the program, there are rumors that Rubio will fly out to Doha from Israel.And if he were to do that, do you think that it would have something to do with any kind of hostage release, ceasefire negotiation?

Lazar Berman: Everything that the US talks to Qatar about is, of course, about negotiation and the ceasefire thing. You know, part of it is to calm one of the main US allies in the region. But of course, they’re going to talk about that. And the US would like to see a negotiated end to the war that meets America’s conditions, as Rubio said, which are very similar to Israel’s conditions, you know, disarming of Hamas, release of all the hostages and a new future without Hamas in Gaza. So if it can make that happen, wonderful. I’m sure they’re going to try to do that. But given Qatar’s ineffectiveness at getting that to happen, they might have been effective in other parts of the negotiations until now. And Hamas, you know, seen as this is the fight for its very existence, I don’t see that as very likely.I think we’re going to see the operation in Gaza City.

Amanda Borschel-Dan: Lazar, thank you so much for your time. I know you’re having a slammed busy day. Hopefully you will have some lunch at some point as well.

Lazar Berman: I have not had that yet, actually. That’s true.

Amanda Borschel-Dan: I forgot that. Right. So thank you very much for joining me today, Lazar. Okay, thank you. Thanks for listening to the Times of Israel’s daily briefing. Please check out another installment tomorrow. This episode was produced by the Podwaves. If you have any questions or comments about this or any other episode, please drop us an email to podcast@timesofisrael.com. Until tomorrow. Shalom.

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