Daily Briefing Sept. 17: Day 712 – Zamir rallies troops as IDF moves into Gaza City

Welcome to The Times of Israel’s Daily Briefing, your 20-minute audio update on what’s happening in Israel, the Middle East and the Jewish world.

Military correspondent Emanuel Fabian joins host Jessica Steinberg for today’s episode.

At least 600,000 Gazans are still in Gaza City as the IDF ground offensive enters its second day, says Fabian, and the army is steering clear of them. Estimates suggest that the operation will take months, although Fabian notes that it is unclear whether the government or international community will allow it to continue for that long.

IDF Chief of Staff Eyal Zamir was on the frontlines in Gaza City on Tuesday at the start of the offensive, says Fabian. He discusses how the army leader needs to present to the government the risks to troops and hostages in the Gaza offensive, as well as the possible opportunities.

The IDF struck the Houthi-held port of Hodeida on Tuesday and, in response, Israel received the 85th rocket strike from the Yemeni rebel force in the evening, which was intercepted. Fabian explains that the IDF has repeatedly hit the Yemeni port, as it is where the Houthis receive imports of Iranian weapons.

Check out The Times of Israel’s ongoing liveblog for more updates.

For further reading:

IDF begins major Gaza City ground offensive targeting Hamas; dozens of Gazans said killed

IDF chief insists it’s his duty to warn of Gaza City op’s ‘risks and opportunities’

Israel strikes Houthi-held port of Hodeida in response to drone and rocket fire

As Hamas urges Gazans to stay put, its leaders are trying to flee Strip, says Israel

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The following is a full transcript of today’s episode:

Jessica Steinberg: Hi, welcome to the Times of Israel’s daily briefing. It is Wednesday, September 17, and I’m Jessica Steinberg.

I’m speaking today with military correspondent Emanuel “Mannie” Fabian.

Hey, Mannie. How are you doing? Hi, good morning.

Emanuel Fabian: Good morning.

Jessica Steinberg: It is day 712 of the war. Israel is opening up a second route for Palestinian residents fleeing Gaza City as the IDF [Israel Defense Forces] presses its offensive for a second day. In Jerusalem, police dispersed demonstrators, including hostage families who had set up a protest encampment outside Prime Minister Benjamin (‘Bibi’) Netanyahu’s home, starting in the earlier part of the week. We’ll talk about what’s happening in Gaza, some back and forth between IDF Chief of Staff Eyal Zamir, and the government, and all of it, so stay with us.

Okay, Mannie. The ground offensive into Gaza City began yesterday. You’ve obviously been reporting on it very steadily, including reports that local medics had said that dozens were killed and injured in strikes.And meanwhile, we have the anguished families of hostages held in Gaza who are terrified for their loved ones, who it has seemed through some Hamas videos, propaganda videos received in the last few weeks, that they are also in Gaza City.
So let’s start with the offensive. What does it look like? Where are we right now? What can you tell us?

Emanuel Fabian: So we’re really talking about the initial phases of this ground operation. Despite early reports from Palestinian media that were also cited by Israeli outlets that tanks were in the heart of Gaza City, we’re not talking about that just yet. The IDF was already operating on the outskirts of Gaza City for several weeks in the neighbourhoods that are closer to the Israeli border. And on Monday night, essentially sent in another division into Gaza. And with the existing division that was already there, pushed into new areas, not deep into the city yet, but moved ahead, moved beyond the lines that they were currently at alongside intensive airstrikes against Hamas infrastructure in the area. Sort of the key issue now is that there’s still around 600,000 Palestinian civilians still in Gaza City, which makes it more difficult for the army to actually carry out an offensive in those areas because of all the limitations in trying to manoeuvre ground troops in areas where civilians still are. So according to at least the estimations from the army, this operation in Gaza City will take months. I don’t know if the Israeli government will give the army months or if even the international community will give Israel months, but it doesn’t look like this is going to be something that’s very quick. So these ground troops are now operating in new areas. We’ll see over the coming days as more and more civilians evacuate Gaza City, then troops will push in deeper. And the plan is, from what I understand, is to encircle Gaza City first and only then begin to capture it. And then after that is the clearing phase where Israel goes and looks for all the tunnels and the Hamas infrastructure, things that they missed during the capturing phase.

Jessica Steinberg: Can you give us a sense that when we talk about troops, what kinds of numbers of soldiers are we talking about for the ground troops?

Emanuel Fabian: So currently two IDF divisions, the 98th and the 162nd, are operating in Gaza City. And then in the coming days, an additional division, the 36th, will also join. And that will be, it’s hard to say exactly, but we’re talking tens of thousands of ground troops operating in Gaza. And in addition to them, there’s two more divisions. There’s the 99th, which is operating in Israel’s buffer zone in northern Gaza. And then the Gaza division, which is normally responsible for the border area, is in the Rafah and Khan Yunis area and the buffer zone in the south of the strip. So currently in Gaza, most of the IDF is there. And then we talk about all these reservists who were called up, 60,000 reservists in addition to the 70,000 that were already in the reserves. Most of them actually have been sent to other fronts, to the border with Lebanon, to the border of Syria, to the West Bank, to swap out the standing army forces that are being sent to Gaza. So that’s the main role of the reservists. There are, of course, many reserve roles that are in logistics and in intelligence as well, which are, of course, assisting with the ground operation in Gaza. But reservist ground troops in Gaza, there aren’t that many of them. It’s mostly the standing army.

Jessica Steinberg: And how much, you know, do we have a sense of what the army is expecting to receive in response from Hamas, from Hamas terrorists and troops that are in Gaza City? Is there any sense of that?

Emanuel Fabian: Yes, so there’s an estimation from the army that around a month ago there were 2,000 to 2,500 Hamas operatives in Gaza City. But those numbers aren’t really accurate because the army ordered an evacuation order. They think that many of them may have left along with the civilians. But they also think that a lot of other Hamas operatives have actually joined, come to Gaza City to try and fight off the anticipated or now already undergoing Israeli invasion of the area. So they say around several thousand Hamas operatives are believed to be in the area. Those who the army thinks will actually stay and stay and fight and not flee again with the civilians. But like I mentioned before, as of this morning, the IDF estimated 400,000 or so civilians have left Gaza City, which leaves around 600,000 more who have not yet left.

Jessica Steinberg: Right. So right. So speaking of evacuees, we had in a very comprehensive piece about the ground offensive, there was also some interviews or quotes from the Holy Family Church, for instance, in Gaza City, which said that it wouldn’t be evacuating because it has several dozen, I believe, special needs patients who they just literally cannot move out. So what do we know about those who are staying or those who haven’t left yet? What kind of information can you give us?

Emanuel Fabian: I haven’t seen a specific response from Israel yet, but it’s very possible. And we’ve seen this before in the war where there are specific, I would say, protected areas where the army is aware that civilians are in those areas and unable to move. It’s happened before in hospitals when the IDF raided (al) Shifa Hospital, for example. There were civilians still there. They didn’t leave. And in some cases, when the army reaches those areas, it will aid the civilians in evacuating or alternatively, it will tell them to stay there and it will bring humanitarian aid to them. We even saw the IDF spokesperson say yesterday that humanitarian aid will also be delivered to northern Gaza, where Israel has ordered civilians to evacuate, which to me implies that Israel knows there will be certain areas, certain specific, I would say, protected sites like this church where civilians will not be leaving and therefore Israel will need to be the ones to provide humanitarian aid to them and make sure that they’re getting food and water and any other supplies that they need. So that’s possibly the case here, but it could be that when the army reaches there, they’ll tell them to evacuate and move them to the south of the Strip. But in any case, the church itself is, of course, protected and the army is aware of its existence and won’t be targeting it, at least intentionally. We saw there was a strike there several months ago that was accidental. But there are certain cases like this in the entire of the Strip.

Jessica Steinberg: Okay. All right. Let’s take a quick break. When we’re back, let’s talk about IDF Chief of Staff Eyal Zamir and what he has been saying of late. So stay with us.

Okay, so in our headlines, in headlines throughout Israeli media, we’ve had Defense Minister Israel Katz saying Gaza City is burning and that, in a sense, feels very juxtaposed against the comments from IDF Chief of Staff Eyal Zamir, who has really been speaking consistently in cabinet meetings and in the media about keeping the hostages and the troops at the forefront of his mind, knowing that as the IDF goes forward with this offensive. And then also a couple of days ago, though, Zamir was urging the cabinet ministers to agree to a ceasefire and a hostage deal, was yelled at in turn for saying so. But of course, he’s the man in charge here of all of it and of bringing the ground defense, of starting the ground defense, of getting it started.

So how are we to make sense of this, Mannie? What can you tell us about this that makes sense of the fact that he’s the one who has to lead the charge, but he’s also the one that’s saying, let’s have a deal?

Emanuel Fabian: Well, Zamir’s job is, of course, to lead the army. But he’s also there in these cabinet meetings to tell the politicians what the implications are. And I think a big sort of misunderstanding, at least even sometimes the media has, is the fact that during these cabinet meetings, when Zamir says whatever he says about whatever, you know, the politicians, they say we want to capture Gaza City and Zamir says, well, it will lead to X, Y and Z. It’s often misinterpreted as he’s against the operation. I think it’s more the fact that he’s trying to tell them that these are the implications. This is how many soldiers will die.
This is how many hostages will be in harm’s way. This is how many civilians, Palestinian civilians, may be killed and that will risk Israel further being isolated diplomatically. So he said publicly yesterday in a video statement that he presented, and it’s his duty to present before every operation, all the implications, all the risks, all the opportunities. And that’s how he’s leading this operation as well. It’s been reported, of course, that he’s objected to this major offensive. He suggested something else, but he’s accepted it because, of course, it’s his job to lead the army and command the army. And to answer what the government tells him to do. Exactly. If the government tells him to capture Gaza City, he’s going to have to capture Gaza City, but he will do it in the way he thinks is the best way to do it. And he’s obviously already told the government this operation will lead to however many soldiers who will be killed or injured and whatever other implications there are. So it’s, of course, very difficult. And just on that note, Zamir himself was in Gaza during the beginning of the offensive. He joined the 98th Division. He was essentially on the front lines with the troops. He was commanding it himself to make sure that everything is done according to the way he wants it to be done.

Jessica Steinberg: Because of all these concerns, especially the concerns from the families of the hostages who, by the way, who are afraid that their loved ones are human shields now. That’s the statement that they’ve been making.

Emanuel Fabian: Precisely. And the army even knows this. And that’s another aspect is the army won’t be operating in areas where it knows that Hamas is holding hostages and will only operate in areas where it can rule out that Hamas is holding hostages there. But it’s, of course, a huge risk. Gaza City is not a huge area. Hamas has in the past executed hostages when troops have merely approached the area, even not even gotten that close. So these are the kinds of things that Zamir has already told the politicians. And that’s why he’s really closely following this offensive and being right there on the front line, essentially, as it’s being carried out.

Jessica Steinberg: Man, in the video that he put out yesterday, PR, how do you define or explain that decision to put out a, you know, a video that he wouldn’t necessarily have done in other situations?

Emanuel Fabian: I mean, it’s not the first time we’ve seen Zamir get up and speak. It wasn’t a press conference. And I don’t believe he’s done a press conference since entering the role. His predecessor, Herzi Halevi, did several during the war. I was at almost all of them and was able to ask questions at all, for almost all of them. But Zamir hasn’t. But he has issued video statements at times, normally ahead of major operations when there are questions from the Israeli public as to what’s happening. And of course, following all these reports about his objections and about him being yelled at and and all these other leaks from the cabinet meetings, I think he wanted to take the opportunity to actually respond to that and sort of tell the Israeli public where the army stands and where the army’s priorities are. And of course, he said that the return of the hostages is, of course, the top priority, even though from other government ministers we’re hearing that that’s not the case. But the army sees the hostages being returned as their top priority. I think that’s why he issued this video statement and also came after the IDF spokesperson gave a press conference from the same area, from the Gaza border. He answered questions. But then shortly after, the army also issued this full video statement from Zamir, essentially answering those questions, but without actually being, you know, we couldn’t ask him questions.

Jessica Steinberg: Press conference format, right? Wasn’t a press conference format, exactly. Right, right. Well, it does. It gives a sense, you know, it’s a people’s army. So it gives a sense of perhaps security to know that the IDF chief of staff is thinking about the things that many citizens are also thinking about. I think that’s the sense of where it’s coming from. So, okay, let’s move to the Houthis.Israel struck, the IDF struck Yemen yesterday and then there was a siren last night in different parts of Israel for a Houthi strike here. Where are we on that front?

Emanuel Fabian: So again, I think it marked the 17 or 18 Israeli strike in Yemen. The IDF targeted the (Al) Hudaydah port, which has been struck multiple times already in response to Houthi attacks. But it’s I wouldn’t look at this strike as, oh, Israel’s just doing the same thing again. It’s not doing anything. The port is a port. It’s very difficult to destroy a port, really, in strikes. And what Israel is doing is it accuses the Houthis of using the port to smuggle weapons from Iran to Yemen, which are then launched at Israel. And by striking the port is every few months is essentially to prevent the Houthis from continuing to use the port to smuggle weapons. So the strikes target infrastructure at the port where the boats are able to dock and where they’re able to unload these shipments. Israel strikes it and then the Houthis rebuild it to bring in more shipments of weapons. So it’s not sort of surprising that Israel is continuing to strike it. It’s to basically to maintain this blockade essentially on the Houthis.

So in a few months, I’m sure the Houthis will rebuild the infrastructure there and the IDF will target it again. The Houthis are not giving up on their missile strikes. Of course, just a few hours after this strike on the Houthis, they launched a ballistic missile at Israel, which was intercepted, one of 85 since March when the IDF relaunched its offensive in Gaza. Of course, Houthis have also launched 37 drones at Israel. The latest was just a couple of days ago. They’re not giving up and it’s very difficult to actually figure out for Israel what it is that will get them to stop. But that’s the situation we’re in. It’s almost like a war of attrition where Israel just continues to attack the Houthis and the Houthis will just respond. Often happens during dinner.

Jessica Steinberg: I can tell you that from our perspective.

Emanuel Fabian: It is usually in the evening.

Jessica Steinberg: Yeah, right.

Okay, Mannie, on day two of the Grand Offensive, thank you for explaining it to us and helping us try and figure out where it all stands right now. So we appreciate your insights and highlights.

Emanuel Fabian: Thank you.

Jessica Steinberg: And thanks to you for listening to the Times Israel Daily Briefing. Stay tuned for tomorrow’s installment. This episode is produced by the Podwaves. You can always send us emails at podcasts@timesofisrael.com and feel free to recommend us to other listeners and rate us wherever you find your podcasts. Until next time, take care and be well.

Check out yesterday’s episode here: